I also left academia three years ago, shortly after getting tenure. My situation is different from yours, but I haven't regretted it.
What finally tipped me over was writing out my life values and priorities, and realizing how much they used to align with academic science when I was a PhD student and postdoc, and little they aligned as professor.
Thank you so much for the affirmation! I can certainly relate to what you're saying.
By the way, I also completely resonate with your tagline: “you can learn a lot of math with a bit of coding." This is totally what I did in my teaching
Hey Chris, it's been too long! I empathize with a lot of the sentiment regarding academia you express. I left the US last year to take a faculty position in a design engineering department in the Netherlands. I will say that while there are definitely still problematic elements of academia that persist across countries (especially now with LLMs), even just changing countries and types of programs has been really eye-opening and overall great for me personally. It sounds like you have many exciting alternate prospects on the horizon, and I'm happy for you to hear that you're actively choosing to pursue those! Still...if you want to work on the side with some super creative students, let me know ;)
Hey Katherine, it's great to hear from you! Blast from the past! (btw somehow your comment got duplicated twice, so I just removed those)
My gut did tell me that things were better elsewhere, so thanks for confirming that from the other side! I'm really happy to hear you landed at a better place. I'd love to chat more about what you're up to at some point.
To me, it seems like LLMs are accelerating trends that were already underway for a long time. On the teaching side, hopefully it gets students and teachers to work together to craft something that students feel they have a stake in beyond a diploma. On the research side, I hope we can change incentives so that we value quality over quantity in publications. But on my side, there are too many other things in the world pulling me away to honestly commit to those *enormous* challenges at this point in my life :)
Interesting to read this Chris. On the inside through my PhD, and now on the outside for many years, I've been dismayed by what feels like a prolonged mission creep away from student learning. Your line "rising tuition costs and simultaneous dwindling job prospects for our students" is a consequence. Do you think there is a path to colleges where teaching professors are the stars of the school, and tuition is kept in line with median wages? I imagine there would be a lot of turmoil on the way with programs being cut and administration reduction.
Hey Greg, it's awesome to hear from you! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Yeah, it's getting pretty dire, and I agree with your diagnosis. I don't know what the prognosis or prescription are. The closest model to what you're describing with a teaching-centric approach currently seems to occur at community colleges, though they are explicitly career focused, cheaper, and quicker. Ironically, bureaucracy seems to balloon at 4 year colleges whenever administrators try to port such a career-focused mindset over to that context. There is something special about 4 year colleges that's independent of tangible career paths, but it's difficult to articulate, and people (rightfully) want an immediate return on their investment now that they're so expensive.
Sadly, like you, I do expect things to continue to deteriorate in the traditional models. On the more optimistic side, it seems like people are figuring out more "DIY" opportunities for education than ever before. Quality control aside, you can find a YouTube video on pretty much any technical skill. On the humanities side, I also just recently learned of the Catherine Project: https://catherineproject.org/. What we have yet to figure out on the DIY side, in my opinion, is the mentoring piece, and honestly, that's what I spent most of my time and effort on in my role at Ursinus, and it's something I don't think can be automated.
I saw your linkedin post and came over to read the whole story...I am in a unique/interesting position, having worked in clinical research project and program management for over 15 years, and then added a PhD, which I recently finished. I am currently in an academic position, but can't shake that it is not the right place for me anymore and leaning toward independent research organizations in our area or an industry position, but I also feel like I'm throwing something away. Would love to zoom/contemplate this with a neutral party if you're up for it!
Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and for sharing some of yours. Regardless of what you're thinking, congratulations on your accomplishments! I would love to be a sounding board and to hear your thoughts. Send me a direct message and we can set up a time to meet
Congrats on making the right decision, Chris ;)
I also left academia three years ago, shortly after getting tenure. My situation is different from yours, but I haven't regretted it.
What finally tipped me over was writing out my life values and priorities, and realizing how much they used to align with academic science when I was a PhD student and postdoc, and little they aligned as professor.
Thank you so much for the affirmation! I can certainly relate to what you're saying.
By the way, I also completely resonate with your tagline: “you can learn a lot of math with a bit of coding." This is totally what I did in my teaching
Hey Chris, it's been too long! I empathize with a lot of the sentiment regarding academia you express. I left the US last year to take a faculty position in a design engineering department in the Netherlands. I will say that while there are definitely still problematic elements of academia that persist across countries (especially now with LLMs), even just changing countries and types of programs has been really eye-opening and overall great for me personally. It sounds like you have many exciting alternate prospects on the horizon, and I'm happy for you to hear that you're actively choosing to pursue those! Still...if you want to work on the side with some super creative students, let me know ;)
Hey Katherine, it's great to hear from you! Blast from the past! (btw somehow your comment got duplicated twice, so I just removed those)
My gut did tell me that things were better elsewhere, so thanks for confirming that from the other side! I'm really happy to hear you landed at a better place. I'd love to chat more about what you're up to at some point.
To me, it seems like LLMs are accelerating trends that were already underway for a long time. On the teaching side, hopefully it gets students and teachers to work together to craft something that students feel they have a stake in beyond a diploma. On the research side, I hope we can change incentives so that we value quality over quantity in publications. But on my side, there are too many other things in the world pulling me away to honestly commit to those *enormous* challenges at this point in my life :)
Interesting to read this Chris. On the inside through my PhD, and now on the outside for many years, I've been dismayed by what feels like a prolonged mission creep away from student learning. Your line "rising tuition costs and simultaneous dwindling job prospects for our students" is a consequence. Do you think there is a path to colleges where teaching professors are the stars of the school, and tuition is kept in line with median wages? I imagine there would be a lot of turmoil on the way with programs being cut and administration reduction.
Hey Greg, it's awesome to hear from you! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Yeah, it's getting pretty dire, and I agree with your diagnosis. I don't know what the prognosis or prescription are. The closest model to what you're describing with a teaching-centric approach currently seems to occur at community colleges, though they are explicitly career focused, cheaper, and quicker. Ironically, bureaucracy seems to balloon at 4 year colleges whenever administrators try to port such a career-focused mindset over to that context. There is something special about 4 year colleges that's independent of tangible career paths, but it's difficult to articulate, and people (rightfully) want an immediate return on their investment now that they're so expensive.
Sadly, like you, I do expect things to continue to deteriorate in the traditional models. On the more optimistic side, it seems like people are figuring out more "DIY" opportunities for education than ever before. Quality control aside, you can find a YouTube video on pretty much any technical skill. On the humanities side, I also just recently learned of the Catherine Project: https://catherineproject.org/. What we have yet to figure out on the DIY side, in my opinion, is the mentoring piece, and honestly, that's what I spent most of my time and effort on in my role at Ursinus, and it's something I don't think can be automated.
I saw your linkedin post and came over to read the whole story...I am in a unique/interesting position, having worked in clinical research project and program management for over 15 years, and then added a PhD, which I recently finished. I am currently in an academic position, but can't shake that it is not the right place for me anymore and leaning toward independent research organizations in our area or an industry position, but I also feel like I'm throwing something away. Would love to zoom/contemplate this with a neutral party if you're up for it!
Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and for sharing some of yours. Regardless of what you're thinking, congratulations on your accomplishments! I would love to be a sounding board and to hear your thoughts. Send me a direct message and we can set up a time to meet
Sincerely,
Chris